Fuzzie ([info]fuzzie) wrote,
@ 2005-01-06 11:15:00
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So, the LiveJournal Social Contract has been renamed to 'guiding principles' in the wake of LiveJournal being sold. One of the most important points in both the original and new documents was that they promised to strive to run their business based on feedback from the LiveJournal community. This hasn't happened. They've sold it, and no-one had a clue. Not even paying users.

Now, the more interesting bit: they've changed various parts of the social contract (the important bit being the last bit), and the changes give us some insight into what Six Apart are planning (all formatting is mine):

  • They changed 'We promise to keep you informed' to 'We will strive to keep you informed'. Minor change.

  • They changed the end of 'permanent accounts will be honoured for the life of the site' to 'for the life of the service', as well as removing some unneeded text from the paragraph. Minor change.

  • They changed the entire 'Avoid advertisements' section to 'Avoid banner advertisements', making the necessary changes to the text to match. So non-banner advertising is no longer out of the question. I wonder if this means we'll get textual advertisements?

  • They massively expanded the 'we won't spam you' section to be more complete. They're now claiming that signing up establishes a relationship with them in which they're allowed to send spam, and that you have to opt-out. They've also moved from 'we won't sell e-mail lists or personal information' to 'we're not in the business of selling e-mail lists or personal information BUT <insert exceptions here>'.

    To be fair, some of this is to do with their need to be able to share information with their new parent company. However, the following is from their (brand new) privacy policy, and isn't good, but explains the other changes:

    LiveJournal.com may use or share your personal information where it is necessary for us to complete a transaction, to operate or improve LiveJournal.com and related products and services, to do something that you have asked us to do, or tell you of products and services that we think may be of interest.

    Where you are contacted with an offer or service based on information you have shared with LiveJournal.com, we will do our best to provide you with an opportunity to opt-out of receiving such further communications at the time you are contacted.

    Their old privacy policy said The only things we email you will be things you explicitly ask for (like a password reminder), mailing lists that you sign up for, or notifications about your account status.

  • They completely gutted the Free Software section. It used to be:

    All of the code that is used to run a complete, highly-customizable LiveJournal installation is available to the public. We promise to keep this source free and open so that we can give something back to the Free Software community.

    They've gutted this to what is essentially the following: "We plan to continue to give back to the community by contributing certain bug fixes, testing, documentation and new code." .. the rest is babble about how they've contributed in the past.


So, goodbye, Free Software LiveJournal. It's pretty obvious from this and staff comments that they're not intending to carry on along their current almost entirely Free path. This isn't surprising, considering LiveJournal is now owned by .. the company who fucked up the whole Movable Type thing by suddenly charging insane prices for it (the blog entries linked from here on their site give a good overview of how pissed off people were about that). 'Yay'. I'm really really distrustful that it isn't going to be fucked up entirely.

To be fair, both Brad and Six Apart are claiming that livejournal will continue to be 'open source' in some manner. I suspect one of the reasons for this is that it's GPLed. And (I assume) many people have made code contributions under this license, and until they can replace the contributions with their own, any code changes they're going to have to distribute are probably going to have to be GPLed. This doesn't mean they can't customise the hell out of the site itself and not give out the source, of course (hell, they have been).

I also suspect they might end up losing many of the paying customers because of this. Not many free users, perhaps, but a lot of the users who actually cared enough to support Danga in the past won't bother doing so for Six Apart. I predict that, if so, they'll probably end up adding more benefits to having a paid account because of this, to try and encourage free users to move up, rather than just surviving on people who wanted to just support the site, who will disappear.

I certainly won't be renewing my paid account unless they move back to their old Free Software policy or otherwise show they're still committed to the idea. Thankfully it expires in February; quite a few of my friends are quite annoyed that they've paid for a whole year recently only to be betrayed like this.

I should probably say that I can completely understand Brad's likely reasons for selling out; I'd go insane trying to run a site like this when all I wanted to do was hack on it. This doesn't mean the above changes don't suck, and that LiveJournal isn't going to suck, it just means that despite what everyone is saying it's rather likely that the primary motivation here wasn't money.


Thoughts on alternatives: A post by crschmidt on greatestjournal discusses how greatestjournal have been stealing livejournal code they haven't been allowed to; the presence of this on their site, plus the broken state of various parts of their site and the fact they have banner ads in the middle of pages, means they don't seem like a viable alternative. Plus it looks like a horrible mess, especially their images system. deadjournal seems competently administered, but they want invite codes, and I can't pay for an account because they don't take credit cards, and paypal hate me.




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[info]evad_ukc
2005-01-06 11:30 am UTC (link)
uh oh.

Well, the current code is currently open source... And there are already other alternatives to LiveJournal based on the LJ code, so all we can do is not worry, because open source will prevail.

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[info]bz2
2005-01-06 12:26 pm UTC (link)
If someone sets up an open source and social contract based site now, they'd get tonnes of users.

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[info]greenreaper
2005-01-06 04:14 pm UTC (link)
. . . and then get sold to another company? Sounds like a plan! ;-)

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[info]madsquirrel
2005-01-06 11:42 am UTC (link)
#It's the end of LiveJournal as we know it, thanks for selling out#

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[info]josteinh
2005-01-06 01:10 pm UTC (link)
It's capitalism in a nutshell. The most unfair and unjust of all economic systems.

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[info]zerotime
2005-01-06 02:46 pm UTC (link)
Go back to Russia.

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[info]josteinh
2005-01-06 04:55 pm UTC (link)
Russia is capitalist.

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[info]rydel23
2005-07-06 02:17 pm UTC (link)
Tell it to Khodorkovsky. ;)

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[info]evad_ukc
2005-01-06 03:04 pm UTC (link)
It's not the most unfair and unjust, it aims to be the opposite of that... Don't take this to mean I am a fan of capitalism ;)

Theres nothing wrong with healthy competition and the market, there is something wrong with the lack of cooperation and money being the driving force in our lives.

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[info]nornagon
2005-01-06 11:56 am UTC (link)
Mm, I agree. There's going to be a fork :)

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[info]superdus
2005-01-06 12:02 pm UTC (link)
Scheisse! That's not good *at all*!!!

So who has bought LJ out, then???

I hope they don't have "Big Brother" content-filtering of what we can all write now...

Bollocks, if I had enough server capacity and bandwidth, I'd start my own rival to LJ - doubt if I can manage it from a Celeron 1.7 GHz Linux server connected to ADSL in a back bedroom in Shrewsbury though...

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-06 12:35 pm UTC (link)
Six Apart have. See lj news.

I doubt much will change immediately, it'll be slow changes which gradually fuck things up.

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[info]evad_ukc
2005-01-06 03:05 pm UTC (link)
LJ had already forked in the past... DeadJournal I seem to remember...

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-06 03:10 pm UTC (link)
Not really a fork, just a customisation, and the livejournal crew helped (it was the first use of the code, just after it was opened up).

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[info]vampwillow
2005-01-06 05:05 pm UTC (link)
Re "content-filtering of what we can all write now" if you look at one of the 6A write-ups one of the 6A management comments about communities she thinks are 'wrong' ...

meep!

I was sortof wondering about www.ukjournal.com earlier ...

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[info]kchrist
2005-01-06 06:29 pm UTC (link)
URL?

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[info]vampwillow
2005-01-06 06:55 pm UTC (link)
http://www.sixapart.com/corner/archives/2005/01/current_mood_op.shtml

"Sure, I realize that there are communities that I can't understand or necessarily want to encourage, but I also ..."

(my bold)

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[info]sbisson
2005-01-06 07:03 pm UTC (link)
...but I also know that there are many types of people out in the world and a great number of them aren't 27 year-old white women who work at weblogging companies.

Which puts a bit of a different spin on it...

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[info]vampwillow
2005-01-06 07:34 pm UTC (link)
whilst the second part of that may suggest that it isn't a 'bad' thing it is that word *necessarily* in there that worries me. It is one of those "useful" words that signifies intent-at-a-later-date imho.

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[info]josteinh
2005-01-06 01:09 pm UTC (link)
Any idea where we can migrate?

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[info]zerotime
2005-01-06 03:06 pm UTC (link)
So, what's a good OS X utility to use to back up my entire LJ? Not that I'm, you know, massively pessimistic or anything.

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[info]coldacid
2005-01-06 07:25 pm UTC (link)
Google for LJSM. You'll need Perl on your system, though.

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[info]zerotime
2005-01-06 11:35 pm UTC (link)
Panther comes with Perl now. It is the deliciousness.

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[info]x_mass
2005-01-07 02:11 am UTC (link)
what about bakup utilities for LJ - what I really need is a translation device to move everything to a new set of a journal

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[info]haute_kitten
2005-01-06 03:47 pm UTC (link)
ok, I'm pretty much compuiter illiterate (on this scale anyhow), please explain what this means?

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-06 03:49 pm UTC (link)
It basically means they're probably intending to make LiveJournal a much more commercial and closed entity, as opposed to the very open project it has been in the past.

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[info]insomnia
2005-01-06 05:02 pm UTC (link)
Very good summary. You may want to see my post on the full implications of the deal.

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[info]tjernobyl
2005-01-06 05:09 pm UTC (link)
Didn't it used to say something like 'we'll never use banner ads again'?

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-06 06:00 pm UTC (link)
It said As it's one of our larger pet peeves, we'll avoid putting advertisements on the site. Although our Terms of Service permits us to change our policy in the future, we've found throughout the past few years that our "paid accounts" business model has worked wonderfully, making banners ads unnecessary. on December 31st, which is when I saved a copy (the copy in the Google cache seems to be from then, too). I don't know about before then, but the only Six Apart change seems to be the one I listed.

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[info]tjernobyl
2005-01-06 06:12 pm UTC (link)
After much digging, I managed to find this, which appears to go back even further.

It may be because it's one of our biggest pet peeves, or it may be because they don't garner a lot of money, but nonetheless, we promise to never offer advertising space in our service or on our pages.

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-06 06:14 pm UTC (link)
Ah, thankyou, that's interesting. That's the only thing which seems to have changed before these recent changes. I wonder how long ago that was changed?

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[info]insomnia
2005-01-06 07:34 pm UTC (link)
From http://www.livejournal.com/community/lj_biz/183610.html :

Brad and I started talking about coming up with a solid type of social contract 1 (à la Debian, DMOZ) where we declare our promises (ones we strive to keep) to the community. It might help to quell some fears if this information can be referenced from one place, like a new page or FAQ or something.

While we were discussing, we came up with a few key points we'd include, so here's our basic outline:

We promise to…
* Stay advertisement free
* Never spam
- Never sell collected email addresses
- Never sell harvested user data
* Maintain reliable uptime within the limits of technical considerations
* Support open source movement by contributing software
* Keep permanent accounts for as long as the site lasts
* Maintain a user operated/supported service

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[info]lo_spettro
2005-01-06 07:25 pm UTC (link)
If there's a completely open copy of LJ's code available, let's get a free fork going...

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[info]idigital
2005-01-06 07:36 pm UTC (link)
Minilog.com synced to CVS this morning...

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-06 07:40 pm UTC (link)
What you really want is the development infrastructure, though, like CVS and the such, independent of LiveJournal, with no problems with duplicating LJ developments which haven't been open-sourced. ie, truly forking the code, and trying to get forked sites such as minilog to use it.

If people just sync to LJ's CVS, then sites are going to fall further and further behind as they don't get new features and people don't have any real motivation to develop code which is present on LJ but not in CVS.

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[info]idigital
2005-01-06 08:02 pm UTC (link)
That wouldn't be difficult to set up... just "apt-get install cvs", and then configure a couple things.

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[info]why_x_smile
2005-01-06 08:11 pm UTC (link)
What a bitch! I don't even pay, and this pisses me off. Grr.

Thank you for all the details and what-not.

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[info]lehah
2005-01-06 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I'd think that as a paying member of this, I'd've had some say or some interest in whats going on. Its not like buying stock in the site - but I like to know where my money is going.

I don't like it going into someone else's coffers. I smell blood and an era of prominent bullshit.

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[info]josteinh
2005-01-06 09:42 pm UTC (link)
Yup.

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[info]petey_hates_lj
2005-01-06 10:00 pm UTC (link)
I'm not to worried. I always kind of felt like LJ hijacked the blogging phenomenon away from the nerds to whom it rightfully belonged. Sure, it's awesome technology, and sure, it's a great social connector, but by god, if I can set up my own webserver and run my own blog site, than I damn well want something better than the "common man" uses.

E.g., www.peteyworld.com vs. my livejournal.

In any case, I'm still interested to see what happens. I think most of those requirements are just changed to legalese to be safe--I mean, think about it. We live in America, the most litigous nation in the history of the world. LJ's TOS were too blanket and too nice. If had been sued over the most minor infraction, they could have. I dabble in law, and trust me, LJ is lucky that they haven't been shut down before now due to their TOS and various promises. Six Apart is probably trying to keep that from happening, since they are the "business side" of blogging.

--Petey

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[info]tinafer
2005-01-06 10:48 pm UTC (link)
This is why I switched to Greatestjournal.com

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[info]earthnative
2005-01-06 10:53 pm UTC (link)
I have a DeadJournal, but have used my one free invite code.

That said, if it looks like LJ is going down, I'll pay for my DJ account and invite a bunch of ppl across.

LJ is made great by community, and the only reason I switched away from DJ to LJ was because LJ had the community and DJ didn't.

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(Anonymous)
2005-01-08 11:33 pm UTC (link)
GJ did never "steal" any code from LJ - for a couple weeks there was code live from LJ's 'danga' repository - back then it was nowhere mentioned that this code was not under GPL, crschmidt then reminded us to remove this code for which we are thankful. (it was never really used anyways)
GJ's mission is simple: to host open source code without charging users, right now there is LJ based code but also phpbb and coppermine (gjpix) code and there might be more soon.

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[info]leora
2005-01-09 10:56 pm UTC (link)
Uh, they aren't necessarily changing anything, just being more honest. I can think of routine practices LiveJournal has been doing for years that a lawyer might consider a violation of some of the old wording.

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-09 11:13 pm UTC (link)
Such as .. ? It's not as if I'm looking at TOS changes here, just at the guiding principles changes.

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[info]leora
2005-01-09 11:17 pm UTC (link)
The big change that makes me more comfortable is the privacy policy one. For years we have been emailing people who volunteer in Support to give them information about Support and how they can find more resources and how they can get questions answered. Sometimes, they have private email addresses. We do this because in all this time not a single person has ever complained, and many people have thanked us for the info or really appreciated it. But I've always worried it may be a violation technically. We do only send one email automatically (after 5 touches on the Board) and then we will sometimes email people to suggest reviews. We would stop and never re-email if asked to, and we generally stop if we don't get a response or even if we get a positive one but then no action on the volunteer's part. We're not out to spam or harass anyone, just give info to those who have done something that makes them appear interested. But still, it technically looked a lot like a violation. Now it's info on services or offers or whatever and fully justifiable.

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-09 11:26 pm UTC (link)
The privacy policy contract could easily have been changed to allow that kind of thing without making it as wide-reaching as they have. Or they could have at least explained it in the guiding principles.

But the point of this post was really to point out the changes, especially the confirmation of their changed stance on LiveJournal being Free Software. You can see their point in the advertising and spamming changes, but they're far more far-reaching than is necessary.

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[info]leora
2005-01-09 11:30 pm UTC (link)
Oh yes, and I'm not saying you don't have a point. Just saying that as much as people are worried by changes, I keep thinking - but we've already been breaking parts of this and nobody screamed. And as much as people worry about what direction Six Apart would take us, I think I'd be equally worried by what direction Brad would take us if he kept running the site himself. I'm not saying Six Apart isn't something to worry about, just that I don't see any concern for ~new~ worries. Just the same worries you should have had all along.

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[info]fuzzie
2005-01-09 11:40 pm UTC (link)
Brad's said he's considered just giving up and closing the site before, it was apparently pretty much the main motivator for the sale. So, yes, it's no doubt a good thing overall, but it does make the reasons for worries some people have more obvious.

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